A topical one this week commenting on the GAA in Cork wanting to remove the name of Padraig Ó Caoimh from Páirc Uí Chaoimh and rename it… SuperValu Páirc.
It’s a classic case of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing, or in this case the Supervalu of nothing. Selling the naming rights is often an act of vandalism that lessens our heritage no matter how polished the doorknobs after (3Olympia anyone?). If ever there was an organisation that seemed to value its heritage it was the GAA, but even the names of its most esteemed figures seem to have a price tag after all.
Páirc Uí Chaoimh: Family ‘shocked and saddened’ at Cork GAA naming rights deal
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@geoglyphentropy @Sliotar @art
Cognates, not loans. They go all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.
@faduda @Sliotar @art I've always wondered if mise/tusa was a loan – in French there's moi/toi, but maybe that's a faux ami.
@geoglyphentropy @Sliotar @art
There are a *lot* of Latin loans. Pretty much anything to do with (christian) religion, arable farming, and literature, for starters.
@geoglyphentropy @Sliotar @art
Sagart is from sacredos
@geoglyphentropy @faduda @art
The Latin caballus is believed to have come from Gaulish, so it's not a safe assumption that capall came from Latin.
But Irish has taken loads of words from Latin (and from Old Norse, and from Norman French). That's not really the issue here – "Páirc" isn't being "borrowed" in any meaningful sense in this situation.
@faduda @Sliotar @art IIRC there's Latin loanwords too – I think athair and sagairt both come from pater, I suspect capaill comes from caballus.
@faduda @art
Commercially driven linguistic change.
@Sliotar @art
It's the same thing. It's arguing over linguistic minutae.
@faduda @art
That's not the same thing. There needed to be an official decision on how best to deal with the Euro, and a decision not to "gaelicise" Euro and cent wasn't entirely unreasonable. And we didn't anglicise it with an "s" plural" either.
De Bhaldraithe had "ceint", but I'm pretty sure it was pronounced with a soft "c" in the Gaeltacht.
But I don't think there's any grassroots demand for "Páirc" in English, or English word order in Irish. "SuperValu Páirc" is just a commercial brand.
@bullivant
I guess gifs don’t show up in Mastodon replies!
@Sliotar @art
I remember a similar thread when the euro came in, about how EU wasn't a natural letter order in Irish, and the c in cent wasn't soft in Irish.
It happens. Languages adapt. And it's the least part of the naming row.
What next, Sam becomes the Twsco Cup?
@Sliotar you make a good point. At least “Uisce Éireann” (shudder) got that right.
@faduda @art
This isn't really about the importation of words into Irish or English, though, it's a commercial proposal that makes no linguistic sense.
If they think it's important to use "Páirc" rather than "Park", then it should be "Páirc Supervalu". If it's important that SuperValu come first, using English word order, then stick with "SuperValu Park.
But you're right that if the GAA had opted for "Faiche" or "Gort" rather than "Páirc" years, the issue probably wouldn't have arisen.
@Sliotar @art You just have to be a bit more flexible with the meaning and it's perfect Irish grammar.
@art That's appalling.
@Sliotar @art If it's any consolation, Irish has been importing words from other languages for as long as we've been writing it down. Pairc, for example, is from Middle English.
@art
Beyond the disrespect to the history of the GAA, there's the (in my mind) even worse disrespect for the Irish language.
In English you have "SuperValu Park", in Irish you have "Páirc SuperValu" –
SuperValu Páirc is a frankenstein's monster, a grammatically English phrase that's dressed up with an Irish noun.
We use Irish words all the time in in English, but when they are part of a noun phrase, we take the whole noun phrase from Irish, with Irish word order.
#Gaeilge
@ownohmanny I’ll take your word for it!
@art nothing to disagree with here but county boards, especially this one, are strange fish.